posted April 15, 2003 10:11 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bob_r:
There's easily another 20 years worth of archives (assuming 1 a year for each of them). Will we get them?

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For me it's a moot point. In 20 years I won't be able to LIFT an archive!

posted April 15, 2003 10:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe Average:
If we were all so interested in purchasing from the beginning of a series, Superman #615 (say) would never get published since we'd all be trying to get numbers 1 through 614 first.

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I can understand why you would make this comparison, but I think there are some important differences.

1. Superman #615 contains new material. All Archives are reprints and none reprint current material.

2. Superman #1-614 is an illusion. Superman #1 is very different from Superman #300 which is very different from Superman #600.

3. How many of us have seen Superman #7? How many of us could afford it?

quote:

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If we ever do get to the point where Shazam! Vol. 19 comes out, I wouldn't expect that people would stop buying it just because they don't have the first 18 volumes.

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I agree completely.

quote:

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This will be especially true when DC can no longer keep all the old volumes in print - as will surely happen one day if the line continues to be successful.

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This is my point. If this happens today, Volume 19 will make more money from DC because they will get sales from those of us who own the first 18 as well as those of us who don't. However, once those who don't dominate the market, DC can make more money buy reprinting Volume 1.

Here's another way to look at it. A mythical comic shop has 20 copies of Superman #1 (the original comic, not the Archive or the Byrne version) on sale for $100. This store also has 20 copies of Superman $17 on sale for $100. Which one do you think will sell out first?

posted April 15, 2003 10:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by srca1941:
At roughly 210 pages of material per volume, that is 640 volumes.

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I think James and I agreed on 600 at one point. However, we still have to prioritize. You and I may agree to stop at 1970, but some people want to go up to the Crisis, and some want to continue beyond.

posted April 15, 2003 10:45 PM            

GA
All-Star 9-11, issues 1 and 2.

Complete Hawkman, Sandman, Dr. Fate, Starman, Spectre.

Later volumes of Flash and Green Lantern.

Complete Marston/Peter Wonder Woman.

At least 1 volume of Dr. Mid-Nite and Comic Cavalcade.

As much Raboy, Fine, Crandall and Cole as you can get.

Ignoring DC's view of the market: complete Scribbly.

SA
Flash through Infantino.

Green Lantern through 75.

Hawkman and Atom through last issue of Hawkman and Atom.

JLA and Legion - mission accomplished, everything else is gravy.

Complete Infantino Adam Strange.

The Brave and the Bold 1-24.

Complete SA Doom Patrol.

At least 1 Metamorpho and Metal Men.

At least 1 more Sgt. Rock.

Superman and Batman (GA and SA) are tricky. I don't want to see them stop, but I don't think that every volume is essential. I don't know where to draw the line. I do think every Captain Marvel is essential, but I know this is a pipe dream. Again, I'm not sure where to draw the line.

posted April 16, 2003 12:20 AM               

I'd rathter have Hawk and Dove Archive #1 (Which would in fact contain the whole series, with art by Ditko and Kane ) over All-Star #11.

Why? I'd rather have volume #1 of every series than complete runs of one or two different series.

There are exceptions of course (Mine are Plastic Man and Shazam) but for the most part, the later volumes just formula repetitions of the first volumes.

All-Star #2 killed my interest in that line. Yes, it is historic, but no the story and art aren't any good, and yes, that is probably why the book was cancelled. I mean, Hawkman never looked the same, even in the same story. I'd rather read good stories, than rare and bad. However, I would buy more than one volume of JLA archives, because those stories are written and drawn the way the JSA should have been. (Yes, I realize that the JLA is a revival of the JSA, but either way, JLA is the superior book.)
I would buy the golden age Flash and Green Lantern, the first volumes, out of curiosity, but would rather the read the silver age versions, for the same reasons I'd read JLA over JSA.
Metal Men, Metamorpho, Tomahawk, Rip Hunter, Robotman, Green Arrow, even Red Bee would all make wonderful volume ones. The curiousity factor alone would make them sell better than Batman Archives #14.
I also don't think an archive should be rushed like Spirit or Thunder Agents.

Just my two cents, reprint the best eras, not just the rarest or obscure stuff.

posted April 16, 2003 12:46 AM               

Superman (GA to Byrne; Action, Superman, and solo WFC): 80 (estimate)
Superboy: 42
Supergirl, Jimmy, and Lois: 58

Batman (GA to New Adventures of Batman; Detective, Batman, and solo WFC): 80 (estimate)
Robin and Batgirl: 10

World's Finest: 20

Wonder Woman (GA to reboot): 50 (estimate)

Legion: 35

JSA/JLA: 30 (estimate)

Green Lantern (GA to current series): 25 (estimate)

Flash (GA to Crisis): 39

Misc. JLA (Green Arrow (starting with GA), Hawkman, Aquaman (GA and SA), Martian Manhunter and Atom): 60 (estimate)

Misc. Silver Age (Metamorpho, Teen Titans, Challengers, etc. [all hero/superhero]): 60 (estimate)

Misc. JSA (GA Hawkman, Sandman, Dr. Mid-Nite, etc.): 40 (estimate)

Misc. GA (DC; all hero/superhero): 60 (estimate)

Marvel Family (GA-70's): 78

Misc. Fawcett (all hero/superhero): 40 (estimate)

Blackhawk (GA to end): 50 (estimate)

Plastic Man and Doll Man: 22

Misc. Quality (hero/superhero): 30 (estimate)

Charlton (hero/superhero): 10 (estimate)

Total: 919

Using this estimate, and our estimated optimum publication rate of 24 volumes (plus non-DC extras) per year, it would take 38.29 years total to complete the superhero (and quasi-superhero) essentials. I tried to be as liberal as I could with the estimated numbers to allow for errors, so it could be less (or it could be more), but even if DC increased production to 24 per year, we're looking at at least 35 more years of prime material, 60 more years with the 14 schedule we’re on now. By that time, the post crisis material would be more than ripe for the picking, meaning Archives could continue indefinitely.

-Steve

posted April 16, 2003 03:08 AM               

It's even more if you include the genre anthologies. Strange Adventures alone will take about 25-28 volumes, and I want at least the first 20.

The sheer volume is for me a strong argument for as rapid expansion as is both possible and prudent, and also for keeping the great majority of the focus on the Golden and Silver Ages.
All other things being equal, I wouldn't say that ready and cheap availability of the original comics should be a factor, but we're in a situation where not everything that should be done can be done, so factors like that have to come into play.

posted April 16, 2003 07:35 AM               

-Steve

posted April 16, 2003 07:48 AM               

We already have a market where regular monthly reprints won't sell because (I assume) today's readership has little or no interest in the aged material.

posted April 16, 2003 09:25 AM               

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Originally posted by RIC:
When we go, will sales decline to the point the archives line no longer exists?

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No. I wasn't born in until 1968, and yet almost all the archives I own are from the 40's (barring the Legion and JLA). These things go in cycles. In another 20 years, we could see a revival of interest in 40's comics to the point where we get a Winky, Blinky, and Nod archive along with everything else. And yes, even a Red Bee.

posted April 16, 2003 02:27 PM            

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Originally posted by REKLEN:
Personally,

I'd rathter have Hawk and Dove Archive #1 (Which would in fact contain the whole series, with art by Ditko and Kane ) over All-Star #11.

Why? I'd rather have volume #1 of every series than complete runs of one or two different series.

That's really strange to me.

All-Star #2 killed my interest in that line. Yes, it is historic, but no the story and art aren't any good, and yes, that is probably why the book was cancelled.

Not at all. By the time it was cancelled it was a far slicker read, both story and artwise. Try Volume #8 or the upcoming #9 - they're light years ahead, almost Silver Age.

I mean, Hawkman never looked the same, even in the same story. I'd rather read good stories, than rare and bad. However, I would buy more than one volume of JLA archives, because those stories are written and drawn the way the JSA should have been. (Yes, I realize that the JLA is a revival of the JSA, but either way, JLA is the superior book.)

Questionable [I do love the JLA, the only long run I've completed, but these 1947 onwards All-Star are at least as good, with a strange special something else - the joy of it being the first time, I guess; today I suppose JLA is the better book] but I see what you mean. As I said earlier, try a later volume of All-Star and check out the difference [and burgeoning similarity to early JLA, the closer we get to '50]. I enjoyed Vol. 2 myself, but that was the last one I enjoyed 'til 7 or 8. I mean really enjoyed. If you thought Vol. 2 was bad, I wouldn't go near the Naydel and Gallagher laden Vol. 5 with a ten foot bargepole.

I would buy the golden age Flash and Green Lantern, the first volumes, out of curiosity, but would rather the read the silver age versions, for the same reasons I'd read JLA over JSA.

Pretty hard going, I agree. I'm just marking time til the Infantino/Elias Flash and the Toth Green Lantern - again not too far removed from the early Silver Age versions quality-wise.

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I feel duty bound to defend JSA even though my favourite line-up is only just about to blossom in Volume 9! I see your points, especially after churning through the mid-40s stuff [and even the vaguely monotonus wartime stuff - "Keep 'em flying, Atom", "Yeah, you too, Hawkman, keep 'em flying!"] but the JSA deserves another chance!